derien | so much potential

Just got back from a long walk around my neighborhood (trying to make myself have an hour's worth of excercise). Ah summer. There's work happening on at least one house in every block. Almost made me want to get a job as a painter, so I could be outside on lovely days. Then I noticed that at quite a few of those job sites there was an older person standing around, watching. Undoubtably the affluent owner of the property, making sure the workmen are working, or just curious what work looks like. By the time they get tired of watching I have to imagine the worker is so tired from being watched that they knock off for lunch.

Speaking of which, must arrainge a lunch for myself. And take a shower. And go pick up the paint for my car - it came in two weeks faster than I'd expected. :)

What else, what else... oh. Write my brother and let him know we could lend him a tent, campstove and dishes, because I did talk to my Aunt and ascertained that she'll be camping with a friend who has everything they need. Do dishes. That will about kill my time for today, but if I have any left I should write more on my elephants story. And write that spoilery-speculative post on HP that I've been promising to indulge myself in.

Maybe I don't have time to pick up the paint today.

What was I doing earlier today? I was reading and responding to a number of replies to my post last night on the study group - I had asked for opinions and help with a problem on binne. A certain person who's a friend of my Mom's and an ex employer of mine and very dedicated to her cause (homelessness and poverty) posts asking for help and donations to her cause, which immediately puts an end to any conversation that's been going on. She does this every time people start to talk.

People on the study group are of the opinion that being a friend of my Mom's and all should not entitle her to post whatever she wants, and that asking for money, even donations to a cause, is not particularly acceptable on a discussion group, and that I should make a rule that covers it and have a talk with her, privately, asking her to stop.

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Your discussion group problem, argh. People who are deeply involved in good causes (or, in some cases, what they percieve as good causes) can have difficulty in understanding that there is a time and a place for everything, and that it's relatively easy to turn people off said good causes by provoking too much low-level resentment. I think making a general rule that states "discussion only" or some such is probably better than a rule saying "no fundraising", or something like that - that could be seen as too personal by your mother's friend and could cause even more disruption if she starts posting wounded complaints or perhaps hovers waiting for someone else to post even the most vaguely similar thing, so she can leap in fighting. (She hopefully isn't that sort of person, but you know, internet fights can be awfully seductive and can seem to have no RL consequence). "discussion only" is less personal and more positive - but will need quite stringent moderation for a while to ensure *everyone* is staying on topic.

I was on (not running) a mailing list once where a poster either would post either to ask for money for the IRA or to smugly report what percentage of their paycheque they'd donated. I finally privately mailed them and asked them not to post such things as it was deeply offensive to me to see foreigners trying to drum up support for terrorism in my country (I was polite! Conciliatory, even! This was the sort of list where ANYTHING offensive to ANYONE was supposed to at least be strongly thought about if someone said they were offended - and I'm talking on the level that if someone made a "who's 'we', white man?" response to an ethnocentric idiocy, there had to be several rounds seriously discussing the other person's claim to be purple, as well as the idiocy).

It did not go down well.

Phew, you had a much more sticky situation, I think.

Yes, I suppose I'll have to really make that rule - or possibly there's even something in the rules already that I can point to and explain that this behavior contradicts that - and email her privately about it.

Thanks. :)

Have you thought further about the rule or mailed your mother's friend? I hope it goes well!

Not really. When I responded to you last I was on my way out the door to work, so since then all I've done is work, prepare a meal, finish a book, sleep, fix Eor's lunch while he was in the shower, and sleep a little more. I sleep too much. Wish I didn't have to, it's a big waste of time.

I'll go look at my community rules right now and see what I can do.

Hm, I don't really have any defined rules at all. There's mentions at various places that this is a group for socializing and conversation about 'anything fun.' I'm going to try running with that:

"I feel I must suggest that you reconsider the sorts of things you've been posting to binne. For a couple of days there it almost looked as though a conversation might be developing, but since your post there hasn't been a peep out of anyone for the past two days. Remember, binne IS intended as a list for conversation and I'm trying to get people from Northern New England to socialize, which is always an uphill battle at the best of times. Posts should invite response, and anything which kills conversation is to be avoided."

I'd suggest "Posts should invite conversational, informal response" as she could claim she is inviting a response (The desired one being, presumably, "Yes! We will rise up and fight injustice with you!") . If she feels she has to make such posts, would encouraging her to talk about past things she has done - in a conversational and interesting way - be a way of heading her off. You could try to persuade her that if she shows people it's possible to have a good time (at rallies, soup kitchens, etc) and that it's not just joyless dutiful do-gooding she might actually be able to recruit people.

I'd suggest "Posts should invite conversational, informal response" as she could claim she is inviting a response (The desired one being, presumably, "Yes! We will rise up and fight injustice with you!")

Seems like you actually read her post. :) Yeah, that's pretty much the tack I suspect she'll take.

If she feels she has to make such posts, would encouraging her to talk about past things she has done - in a conversational and interesting way - be a way of heading her off. You could try to persuade her that if she shows people it's possible to have a good time (at rallies, soup kitchens, etc) and that it's not just joyless dutiful do-gooding she might actually be able to recruit people.

You're very kind. I'm feeling evil, because I don't want to deal with her and I just want her to go away. *sigh*

Can I just say that this is an incredibly hard e-mail to write? When I worked for her I was a quiet and shy eighteen year old. Even thinking about her puts me back in that space.

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I feel I must suggest that you reconsider the sorts of things you've been posting to binne. For a couple of days there it almost looked as though a conversation might be developing, but since your post there hasn't been a peep out of anyone for the past three days. Remember, binne IS intended as a list for conversation and I'm trying to get people from Northern New England to socialize, which is always an uphill battle at the best of times, so things which kill conversation should be avoided. Posts should invite informal, conversational response.

It has been suggested to me (not by someone on the list) that you might be more likely to interest people in helping if you posted about your personal experiences. She suggested you might talk about the times you've had fun in the course of helping people. (She's a teacher, and has to get people interested in the subject every day. And she's also a very good writer.)

My advice (take it for what it's worth, I'm not a teacher and I'm offering this free) is to focus on a really specific thing that happened that was fun - or heartwarming, if that's easier for you - and try to build up some detail about what lead up to that event and how it affected you. You'll find that something you thought was not significant often takes up quite a lot of space when you attempt to write down the context around it, but people seem to prefer reading a more detailed view to quick overviews - it captures their attention more, and more personally.

That looks like a good mail! Here's hoping she gets the message . . .

so much potential

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