Is it only a New England goth thing?

[derien]

Obviously most of the dear people on my friends list have not had any contact with the goings on in the goth community here in Portland, but I'm going to make this post on my own journal rather than on gothicmaine. I'm glad I made that decision, because as I wrote I realized I was venting.

If anyone has any experience with goth clubs elsewhere, I'd love to get some feedback. Are they all like this?

Non-ranting synopsis:
I think goth clubs would attract more crowds if they didn't have BDSM stuff happening in the corner of the dance floor.



The Underground, a local gay club that welcomed the goth crowd one night a week, was sold and the place has been closed for several months. Finally it's re-opening under the name Styxx and they're reinstating the goth night. However, they haven't decided whether they want to do the dungeon stuff again. Like I said, I don't know if all goth clubs everywhere do this, but when it was the Underground (and they also do this at ManRay in Cambridge) they would have volunteers getting chained up and whipped in the corners - with their clothes on. ManRay added the special touch of having video monitors placed all around the dance room so you couldn't avoid seeing video of nude people getting whipped.

Why is it okay for them to place the monitors such that I have to work to avoid seeing them? I really don't want to see it. I've got nothing against the BDSM videos themselves, or BDSM in general - it's fine in private with people I trust. To me a dance club is a public setting, and I don't like sexual things to be juxtaposed with a public setting. Whenever I say this to goth club people they seem to think I'm a prude, and look at me like I'm a nut. Can't one enjoy dancing to goth music and NOT be into public sexual displays? I can't be a complete freak, there must be others like me. I mean, if there wasn't we wouldn't put TMI warnings on posts. People in general don't like to know too much about their friend's, or strangers, sexual habits.

Now, Styxx has decided to re-open the goth nights, but they haven't yet decided on whether to re-instate the whippings. They want to check with the police and make sure there was never any problem arising from that. Of course there wasn't - I might not enjoy being forced to see that, but I don't expect there's any non-con going on.

However, I'd LOVE a gothic night without the dungeon stuff going on. I'd think it would attract more of a crowd without that. The whole BDSM thing is a little more extreme than the goth thing, and I've got to think that knowing the BDSM thing is happen there must keep people scared away. That might be the point, since goths seem to so often like to feel that they are shunned for being unusual.

So, now I've gotten thinking: Is it only in New England, where the fringe population is small, that people think it's a good idea to try to draw both the goth and the BDSM crowds? Why do people have the idea that these crowds overlap so completely? I've got to think there's a lot of people out there who'd like goth music if they didn't have to be in the presence of the BDSM stuff.

On the other hand the DJ they had is, I'm sure, going to be coming back, and he would NOT play danceable music. I mean, okay, a couple, but then he'd follow those with a string of just utter crap that would clear the dance floor very effectively. It's like he looked out there and said, "Whups, more than 5 people, it's getting too crowded!" (Maybe he did, on some subconscious level. He is, presumably, from Maine, where we do like our personal space.)

I get dressed up to go dance, not stand around and look bored. In which perhaps I'm unlike the average attender of goth clubs...? Oh, wait, I also don't like being shunned for being extreme and unusual. And I'm morbid and depressed, but I try to not let that be my whole life. I'm OBVIOUSLY not goth material, despite liking the music and the clothes. Maybe I should learn to fit in to the group, and be different just like all the other different people.

Comments

[dances-withcats.livejournal.com]

Well, I dunno. The only real goth club (tm) that I have been to was in Denver. It was a very cool goth club (tm), and it did not have any BDSM dungeons in public places--or anywhere else that I could think of. I'd heard of another goth club (tm) in Denver where they did have a BDSM dungeon and people doing weird shit like fire play and hanging themselves by hooks and stuff...but it didn't seem like public displays of BDSM were a requirement for the Goth Scene (tm). Bad EBM, maybe--how many times can you hear Covenant's "Dead Stars" before you want to scream?--but not necessarily BDSM.

Personally, I'd have to say that I'd prefer not to go to a club where that stuff is happening in the open. First of all, it smacks of exhibitionism and "ooh, I'm so radical" type of crap that young adults seem to fall prey to (along with being trendily bisexual--until you leave college and marry that WASPy guy your parents love--piercing your lip, having matching Manic-Panic streaks in your dyed-black hair, burning flags at anti-war protests, and so on). Secondly, there are some people, myself included, who might not react well to seeing such scenes enacted in public due to past trauma.

Bottom line: I go to clubs to dance and meet my friends, not to watch people get whipped and zapped with electric cattle prods. But then again, I'm just another grumpy old fogeygoth. :-)

[mollyrazor.livejournal.com]

There are 2 DJs, Ian and Joshua, and yes, they will be back. If it weren't for them, the night would not be back. Specifically, Joshua has been bugging the new owners since the instant he found out who they were.

[gimmeapony.livejournal.com]

I think it's just that in smaller cities like Portland you're lucky to eek out one goth NIGHT, much less an entire club, or multiple clubs, to cater to the (small) crowd that digs that kind of thing. So it seems to me that the Underground attempted to cram as many aspects of a very diverse subculture as they could into one night, since it was all that they had, and came up with this amalgamation of goth/industrial/ebm/dance/fetish/BDSM/etc. There are obviously some connections between all of these things, but when you cross over into BDSM, you're really moving into divergent territory if you ask me.
Now to be honest, I only ever went to the Underground's goth night a couple of times and I really didn't enjoy it. (sorry, Ian. you know i love you.) I don't want to be forced to witness BDSM crap either; it's not my bag and to be honest, alot of the people who show up for those sorts of things just plain AREN'T ATTRACTIVE. If people want to do that kind of stuff, start a private dungeon or at the very least, don't implement video monitors so everybody else in the club has to watch it. I'm sure they're doing it for ambience, but play some damned old Depeche Mode videos on the monitors instead or something; I'd MUCH rather watch videos than be forced to watch some fat man getting his rocks off because two chicks from Lewiston are beating him with a whip. ugh.

[holyschist.livejournal.com]

From what I've heard it's fairly common, but the Goth population in C. Springs is pretty small, I think -- of course, fetish night got shut down here because 12-year-olds were getting in (and I know quite a few Goths who are irritated about this -- me, I think if they weren't keeping 12-year-olds out, they DESERVED to be shut down).

There's a fair amount of overlap, but I also fall into the "ick, public sexual displays" category. Although I suppose I'd put up with them if clubs in this area had non-smoking nights; as it is, I can't go clubbing unless I acquire a gas mask, and I'd rather not.

[holyschist.livejournal.com]

Bottom line: I go to clubs to dance and meet my friends, not to watch people get whipped and zapped with electric cattle prods. But then again, I'm just another grumpy old fogeygoth. :-)

Then I'm a grumpy young notagoth. Of course, I don't go clubbing anyway 'cos I enjoy breathing, but if I did, I wouldn't be going clubbing for the BDSM scene.

[derien.livejournal.com]

I understand that. It's not that I'm not grateful for their work in getting the night reinstated. It's just that I don't like the same music as somebody - one or the other of them, or perhaps both. (I'm not sure which has been on the times I haven't been able to dance to it.) Everyone has their own taste. A DJ, on the other hand, has to put aside their own taste and pay attention to what the crowd dances to. And everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. Being a great advocate doesn't make one a great DJ.

[derien.livejournal.com]

some fat man getting his rocks off because two chicks from Lewiston are beating him with a whip.

I just nearly choked on my coffee, laughing at that. :)

Y'know, I always forget that you ARE going to know what I'm talking about. How lovely to be reminded.:)

[derien.livejournal.com]

12 year olds look older and older these days, it's a little scarey.

Ah, well in that case you could come to Portland and be at least somewhat happy - smoking is banned inside clubs and bars (it's been banned inside restaurants for a while). (I'm not sure if that's in all of Maine or just Portland.) So you can dance without having the sore throat and lungs the next day - it's quite an improvement in my opinion.

Actually, come to think of it, ManRay (in Cambridge, MA) was smoke free last time I went there, I think. (saltypony?) I don't know if that's just them, or Cambridge, or all of Mass.

[gimmeapony.livejournal.com]

i thought you'd get a kick out of that. :)