I am NOT going to do it.

[derien]

I just got back into Facebook after two weeks away and I wish I hadn't. My blood pressure rose right off. A cousin of mine posted "Why isn't anyone talking about how folks from Socialized Med countries come here for our equipment and advanced medical techniques??? Amazing!! Also why is Congress planing on keeping the medical program they use now??????"

Now obviously his overuse of punctuation indicates his mind is unbalanced, and given that his wife is dying of cancer I'm not surprised, but really. I guess one always expects more of one's family. And since he is family I composed something to respond to him with, but then I thought maybe I ought not since he's actually only distant family and under no obligation to listen and hear and rationally debate. But tell me if I'm completely out in left field with this response...

They aren't talking about people coming here from Socialized Medicine countries to use our equipment and techniques partly because it would require so much explanation as to what sort of situation would bring that about. Countries which have socialized medicine triage people for use of their equipment based on their medical need - so they may have the machine but someone who's low on the need list is millionth in line to use it. If they have some money they just bung off to the U.S. and pay to use the machine. So, you know, it does happen, sure, but it's not usually because they actually need to. Also, a lot of the techniques that are being touted as the latest and greatest thing are really not the greatest, they're just expensive, so the insurance companies like to push doctors to use them.

Does that make sense? Does it hit the salient points? Should I write up something longer and more detailed, with footnotes and references, and post it somewhere that people can see it, and then reference him to it? I'm not sure I have the energy. I certainly don't, as I said, have the energy to start facing him directly and trying to argue it on the fly. But the attitude frustrates me. We might have the 'best' medical care in the world in some ways, but quick Google searches show that our infant mortality rate, according to the CIA's site, is between that of the Faroe Islands and Cuba. (Those figures are actually estimated for 2009, but I picked the CIA site because I figured any Republican will believe that the CIA reports.) And according to InfoPlease (who I can't vouch for, they could be anyone) we spend nearly twice as much per capita for our health care in the U.S. as anyone in Australia or Canada. But how can I support my belief that other first world countries DO have the equipment? What should I search on?

Crap, I'm hungry and I'm getting depressed by the stupid again. And I'm still on the cusp as to whether I should go to work. I have to make up my mind in the next fifteen minutes.

Comments

[peak-in-darien.livejournal.com]

You're doing well to be so calm in response. The stupid scares me.

The whole situation in America is incredibly frustrating to watch, as a foreigner who knows how good a public option is. I don't remember ever paying for a doctor's appointment. It's pretty shite that so many people in the USA who deserve that kind of access are missing out on it because of completely crazy arguments.

[derien.livejournal.com]

Careful with that saying that people 'deserve' health care, people might think you're a Goddamn pinko commie. Your probably a feminist, too. Next thing you'll be coming out as onna them bi-sex-uels.

[peak-in-darien.livejournal.com]

LOL. D:

It seems odd that the debate has been politicised with stuff like that. Over here everyone, conservative and left-wing, wants to be able to go to the doctor for free or very cheaply. Who wouldn't want that? o__O

[derien.livejournal.com]

The insurance companies. People who've worked for insurance companies admit that whenever someone calls with a claim they're instructed to say that whatever it is, it's not covered. A lot of people won't fight it, or won't fight it very hard, because when you're sick you don't have the energy to fight, so you've just paid the insurance company all those pay periods (for me, $100/2wks) for essentially no benefit to you. I pay $50 every week, and yet every time I go to the doctor I have to cough up another $25. If you don't have insurance most doctors will actually charge you a considerable amount less, because the insurance companies so often won't pay them what they should that they figure they have to raise their rates whenever dealing with insurance just to cover their losses. And insuring yourself if you're not employed is even more expensive, because it makes sense to somebody that you can squeeze blood from a turnip.

All the insurance companies have to do (and what they are doing) is tell people that Socialized medicine is Evil. Have you seen the signs people were carrying? "Obama lies, Grandma dies" and the like. We have such a stupid population, who will accept anything they're told.

"Socialized medicine means they'll pull the plug on anyone on life support, because it's not cost effective to keep them alive."
"You won't get things you need because you'll be put on a waiting list." (um, triage, anyone?)
"You won't get to choose your own doctor, one will be assigned to you."

I've been able to speak to some of this (with my coworkers) from the perspective of having been someone without insurance who had to throw myself on the mercy of the local hospital for a minor situation, and tell them how much it sucks to be sitting in an emergency room for something that's not an emergency because there doesn't seem to be any other option if you're poor. And you don't get anything like nice or even polite care, people are pissed at you for even being there. (I still have a small hole in my back from that episode 16 years ago which Eor has to clean out for me every now and then so it won't get infected.) You certainly don't get to choose your doctor.

Oh, I forgot to hit on the biggest lie that I heard on an ad, sponsored (I believe) be the insurance companies: "Congress should let the insurance companies compete across state lines to keep the prices low." As fucking if. As if they want to, as if they would lower prices and try to undercut each other. I don't think so. I don't even know if there actually is any injunction from Congress against them competing across state lines. But if you tell people there is they'll believe it.

[peak-in-darien.livejournal.com]

they're instructed to say that whatever it is, it's not covered.
How utterly horrible!

(I still have a small hole in my back from that episode 16 years ago which Eor has to clean out for me every now and then so it won't get infected.)
Oh my god. :// I'm sorry to hear you have to deal with that. What kind of crazy system is it where the government doesn't prioritise things like, you know, keepings its citizens alive and healthy? That's pretty fucking basic!

In my country people are pretty apathetic about politics, but even if we don't expect much from politicians, being able to go to the doctor for free or cheaply is just a basic right. If they can't do that, wtf can they do?

Yeah, I saw those signs, but I just didn't understand where that came from. When people worry about the economic risks of a new plan, I get that, even if I think health care spending just has to be prioritised. But I understand where their fears come from. But the communism/death panels stuff? WTAF? I just didn't get how anyone could think that. And worse, how other people could believe it. The American media is crazy!

[kryptyd.livejournal.com]

I very occasionlly hear of someone going from my country to the US for medical treatment and it's only ever if they have something incredibly rare. Basically you have a large population there? So what, Mr. Cousin.

[derien.livejournal.com]

And Eor told me about an interview he heard on the radio with a woman who actually went back to the Czech Republic to get care for her cancer because she had to fight so hard with her insurance company in the U.S. for every single treatment that it wasn't worth it. In the Czech Republic they prioritized her top of the list because she really needed the treatments and she got the equipment used on her which she needed right away, and the most expensive treatments with no hassle and no cost to her.

[derien.livejournal.com]

Well, I mean to say, how much use are those miracle machines to the majority of the population in the U.S., who can't afford to get to use them?